One of our other threads turned regrettably sour, so I thought I would re-raise part of the debate here. If you are fishing ultralight, perhaps with a 1 lb.
tippet, at what point do you break-off a big fish that you can't get in? I was reading some collected Zane Grey and he had that very problem with some
monster saltwater fish. Say you are fishing for gills and a big bass engulfs the little guy. Happens around here with some frequency. Or the ocassional
brute takes the fly. So there you are hooked up with tackle ill-suited to the fish. My theory is to put all the strain the tackle that it will bear to either
get the fish in quickly or break him off. What say others? Don
0 Kudo
Breaking off fish
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 Zenkoanhead.clarksclassicfl... |
Breaking off fish |
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Posts: 1035 01/14/09 5:37 PM |
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 jdub |
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Posts: 2141 01/14/09 8:09 PM Administrator
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I rarely get to make the decision. If I hook a big bass on light tippet it seems like one of three things happens; 1. I break him off trying to keep him out of
the weeds, 2. he gets into the weeds and breaks me off, and 3. I manage to turn him and land him. These are listed in order of frequency. :-)
I know with trout and other species of fish it's a different story, but I rarely get to fish for them. Jerry |
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flyflingerandy1 |
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Posts: 78 01/14/09 8:41 PM |
I have never broken a fish off on purpose, and utilizing a rod with a soft tip and light tippet, I can put maximum pressure on the fish without fear of
breakoff.
Ultralight Aficionado
Andy |
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jkurtz7 |
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Posts: 2653 01/14/09 9:01 PM Forum Owner / Administrator
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Well I generally don't fish for larger fish they almost always an accidental catch. I've never had a break off though with UL gear and the occasional
larger bass, catfish, or carp. All the larger fish I've caught came to hand quickly. I have had break offs with heavier tackle though.
J. |
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flyflingerandy1 |
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Posts: 78 01/14/09 9:15 PM |
That is what I am saying about low rod angle and using the butt of the rod to fight, with the tip of the rod protecting the tippet.
Ultralight Aficionado
Andy |
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armyflyfisher |
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Posts: 395 01/14/09 10:18 PM |
Hmmm.......
I don't think that I've ever had a consistant pattern of breaking fish off....either with very light tackle or heavier tackle. I don't play a fish any longer than necessary to get hom to hand so that I can release him to live and fight again. David |
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onemoredeer.clarksclassicfl... |
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Posts: 232 01/14/09 11:32 PM Forum Supporter
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armyflyfisher wrote:David, I couldn't agree more. I don't hunt bears with a switch nor do I care to try it. I size my gear to the average size of the target fish. I don't enjoy catching bluegill on a 6wt nor do I care to target 5+pound fish with my 1wt. Doug |
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jdub |
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Posts: 2141 01/14/09 11:59 PM Administrator
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We're talking about unexpectedly hooking very large fish on UL gear and light tippet right? We must fish in different types of places :-) It seems like I
am usually fishing the edge of reeds, cattails, hydrilla or something similar when I unexpectedly hook into a big LM bass. When it happens like this it's
not a matter of rod with a soft tip or playing him off the butt of the rod, etc. You're not losing him on the strike or the set. It's more like
he's headed straight for cover and you have to stop him... right now, and firm side pressure doesn't do it. You've hooked him, your rod has a big
bend in it, he's drilling into the weeds, and you can almost hear your tippet stretching. You give him slack he's in the weeds, you don't give him
slack--'ping', he's gone, Maybe you guys are using heavier tippet than me ;-)
I've had long-ish fights with decent sized catfish on UL gear but I've never had a long battle with a big LM bass on UL gear (or any other gear come to think of it). It's usually a short decisive win or loss. If there are no obstructions you can usually put pretty firm pressure on them and bring them in fairly quickly. I'm almost always on little ponds or small creeks and rivers, wading or fishing from the bank--lots of obstructions and not much open water. I understand trout behave very differently, and I don't know about the other species. My surprises tend to be bass. :-) |
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jdub |
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Posts: 2141 01/15/09 12:20 AM Administrator
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I don't enjoy catching bluegill on a 6wt nor do I care to target 5+pound fish with my 1wt.Hi Doug, you make an important distinction--the fish you are "targeting". I was thinking of the times when I had my 2 wt out merrily catching lots and lots of chunky bluegills and the unexpected huge fish bites. Not the fish I was targeting but always a possibility, and I'd rather have the occasional big one break me off than fish a 7 wt. I think we're all in the same boat to some degree. If I'm after bass I'll at least have heavier tippet if not a heavier rod, but who wants to fish for bluegill with a size 18 hares ears and 1x tippet? 
Regards, Jerry |
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Zenkoanhead.clarksclassicfl... |
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Posts: 1035 01/15/09 2:43 PM |
Excellent replies all. From this brief survey it seems that annoying a big fish to death is largely only theory. Either they break themselves off or they come
to hand. Nobody has given an example of prolonged fish-killing battles with the unexpected hook-up. This suggests that a fixed policy of fishing heavier tackle
to match the occassional big fish so as to protect the fish is an unnecessary concession. I think large trout are in exactly the same category as large bass,
carp, etc. From the posts, the only possibility of fish-killing tactics are when the angler refuses to fight the fish. On a barbless hook, this will often
result in a long-distance release anyway. Don
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jkurtz7 |
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Posts: 2653 01/15/09 4:27 PM Forum Owner / Administrator
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I'd like to relate some things to ya'll that I've observed over the years. There was a time, many years ago, that I was a trout fisherman. I have
since learned the error of my ways and have become the official panfish snob. But, on with the observations. I used to fish trout over in Pennsylvania just
about every weekend. Having fished in some of the more popular streams in western PA, I was always around other fly fishermen and was able to observe them.
The tendency for many of these guys is to hook a trout hold the rod tip high, play the fish off the tip, and let the little SOB dance around in the water for a good period of time. You know, the Orvis pose. These guys would put 12" fish on the reel and let them run downstream sometimes, and they would follow after like this fish was in control or something. The problem that I always saw was the trout fishermen themselves. The tendency to show off with a fish on, like it's some kind of status thing. They over play fish because they think it looks cool the way they are doing it. Pound for pound, a carp will clean a trouts clock in a fight. Now, to answer the main question of this thread, in most cases it's the fisherman, not the gear that is the problem. I'll shut up now. J.
Last Edited By: jkurtz7 01/15/09 4:30 PM.
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Zenkoanhead.clarksclassicfl... |
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Posts: 1035 01/15/09 4:51 PM |
Pound for pound, nearly every other fish cleans a trout's clock. I dream of 1lb. bluegill. Don
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rnwells |
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Posts: 46 01/15/09 5:13 PM |
jiurtz7......Hey hey hey back up there now....Sometimes .....some things are better left unsaid. Why? you ask...I'm a 61 year old man who has been trout
fishing since a teenager. Ultralighting with a fly rod has been my passion for 20 years. I have done the bluegill / bass thing and enjoy it much, and if sheer
numbers is one's priority then that's the way to go.
Flyfishing for trout especially the wild variety is much much more challenging. Heck I've had many fishless days on some of the streams I fish. However everytime I go out bluegilling it's not unusual to catch 20 (twenty) an hour. I guess it comes down to what one really enjoys. I know for me its trout. trout. trout. |
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jkurtz7 |
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Posts: 2653 01/15/09 5:17 PM Forum Owner / Administrator
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rnwells wrote:I didn't intend to offend anyone here. Those who really know me here will know that some of the comments in my post are tongue in cheek. It's supposed to be funny man. J. |
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Zenkoanhead.clarksclassicfl... |
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Posts: 1035 01/15/09 5:45 PM |
RN - you must have found some easy gills. Around Dallas, they can be very picky. I actually prefer trout as a quarry, but not because of their fighting
ability. I like the environs they inhabit and the fact that they will take little flies. Specifically, dry flies. I also like the "wildness" of their
appearance. I was 39 before I had opportunity to catch a trout on a flyrod and so they have always seemed exotic to me. Coincidentally, I arrived in Colorado
at the same time "The Movie" came out, and that too had an impact. However, bugging for bass probably beats gills and trout, but rarely do the bass
cooperate. Don
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rnwells |
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Posts: 46 01/15/09 6:30 PM |
Hey guys no harm done. A little humorous dialogue is fun along the way. Gills are relatively easy to catch, unless one can find them in a cold water
impoundment or stream, and then they can be as picky as trout, at least that seems to be the case up here in the north. By the way Zenkoanhead....I'll be
coming to Mineral Wells, Texas in March to visit my mother in law, and plan to fish the tailwaters of possum kingdom. I've done it the last two years and
really enjoyed it. I will have to agree on one thing...gills are exceptional fighters, even more so than trout. My friend Bill Byrd has numerous articles on
ultralighting and is quite avid in chasing the largemouth bass. Bill and I have chatted on numerous occasions and even hung out on a short fishing trip a
couple of years ago....His website is very interesting and informative.
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armyflyfisher |
#16 | |||
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Posts: 395 01/15/09 7:08 PM |
You know too.......it's the "general perception" at least for me of certain species of fish.
I mean I look at 'gills and Large mouth bass as beer drinking bullies that live in trailer parks. The kind of aggressive guys that you wouldnt want to meet in a dark alley. They seem to generally be easy to piss off and quick to fight, and will fight to the death. Trout on the other hand...and I only have limited experience with fishing for 'bows in some small Missouri streams, seem to be a little more genteel. They're pretty, graceful, and many times live in some very nice surroundings, might be more educated and picky, but generally don't fight as hard once caught. I love them both. When I dream of fishing....I dream of catching.......anything!! David |
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flyflingerandy1 |
#17 | |||
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Posts: 78 01/15/09 8:41 PM |
After using my 3wts for years for bluegill, bass and whatever have you, I can say that I was amazed by the feel I got with bluegill on and how hard they
pulled. I used my 2wt for trout this winter and while they fought, well, shook their head, they are nothing compared to a bluegill, redear or decent
largemouth. Trout are a status fish, and I am anxious to chase them in wild trout streams, however, I look more forward to chasing the native longear sunfish
here in Kansas creeks. I have three streams within an hour drive that hold native longear, and IMO they are prettier than any trout I have seen. I will not
need to fish anything less than 6x, and will be fishing down and across.
Ultralight Aficionado
Andy |
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rnwells |
#18 | |||
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Posts: 46 01/15/09 10:06 PM |
Andy....would you care to run that by us one more time........haha
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jdub |
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Posts: 2141 01/15/09 10:17 PM Administrator
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I'd fish for trout more if there were wild ones around here. Being from Colorado I grew up on trout and I think the big wild ones are a lot of fun and
fight pretty darn good. I agree with Andy though, that smallish trout don't hold a candle to 'gills when it comes to a fight. I'm still frequently
surprised, when I get a hard strike and a good fighter, how small the fish sometimes are when I get them in. I guess like J I'm pretty much a warm water
convert and love where I'm at.
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keebranch |
#20 | |||
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Posts: 2095 01/16/09 12:01 AM Administrator / Moderator |
Lately I've ben fishing my Sage 3wt and it's been a great tool. But I do often go light and lighter. That's why I'm here I want learn from
y'all and see what the next step is...
Les |
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